Season 3 Episode 7 - FAMILY

Families are a common political battle ground. What’s good or bad for families is a regular explanation for everything from censorship to over-policing to immigration intolerance. So if families are so worth providing for and so worth protecting, what exactly are they afraid of? What do kids and parents feel they need to be safe in the city? This episode we’ll be discussing how parents and kids navigate the city. What’s working for them and what really isn’t.

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Script

[INTRO]

ANDREA 0:00

“For me, I didn't think Stockholm was that big a deal. And I thought it was supposed to be a pretty safe place. And my husband shopped it to me as a safe place to raise kids, which for me was like, I grew up in Brooklyn. I'm totally fine. But he was like, Stockholm, it's a good place to raise kids.”

NAZEM 0:21

“When you have kids, suddenly you can walk on the same street and you just see things differently and a whole new infrastructure emerges.” 

[Intro Music]

Jess 0:42

Welcome to Here There Be Dragons. This season, I’m taking you to Stockholm. I’m your host, Jess Myers.

Episode 7: Family

[Music]

Jess 1:27

All season long, we've talked about Sweden's social safety net, the ways that it was good.

SAMUEL1:31

“It's like this melt pot of beautiful things. If you go to Tensta or Hoosby or on the red line, whatever quite hold on. You get to see a bit of the world.”

Jess 1:45

And the way that it was not so good.

SAMUEL 1:48

“You created like, a huge block, and then you copy that design and put that design next to the first one.”

NAZEM 1:55

“The business idea is to, you know, minimize the renovation...”

SAMUEL 2:00

“And then a third one…”

NAZEM 2:01

“…and maximize…”

SAMUEL 2:01

“…and a fourth one…”

NAZEM 2:03

“…rent.”

SAMUEL 2:04

“…so all the areas look the exact same.”

NAZEM 2:07

“…We see this growing slumification process.”

Jess 2:11

But you know who really benefits from social safety nets? Families.

Walking around in Stockholm you’ll likely encounter a very distinct sound [Sound of kids on a playground]: children. Unlike any place I’ve ever lived before, children in Stockholm are incredibly visible in the city. There are ramps on the stairs for new parents to push their strollers up and down. In the city center, after a serious row of building developments, you'll see a park full of kids screaming their heads off. It's also pretty common to see parents with young kids in toe at public lectures, museums, and even parties. Kids are a part of the social fabric in a way that I hadn't really experienced before.

VANESSA 2:53

In an Anglo context, when you say security, I think it has a particular kind of harsh meaning. In Sweden, the idea of security also has this maybe soft meaning about, well-being, like, you feel secure in your person as an individual. It's a lot of emphasis on young children in school, so it has a pretty rounded idea that we want to feel secure in our environment.

[Children singing]

NAZEM 3:24

What do you do with a kid in the city? You go to the playground. Would you go to the playground without the kids? Probably not. So, they have a whole infrastructure that you, you know, activate through this life stage. But in Sweden, there's also something else, something called the open preschools.

So, these are public spaces, open for everyone with a kid below, I don't know, maybe six years old. Usually, it's before kindergarten. So, when you have a newborn up to one and a half or two years old, parents were like everyday leisure, just doing something. Go to this open, clean apartment, there's coffee, kids can play with toys. There's a singing moment

[children singing].

And these kind of infrastructures were invisible to me before I had kids. But when having kids, suddenly you see the city from this kind of infrastructure, and you can go to the other places in other neighborhoods. So these become places where you actually can get to know the city by its people. And you know when people have kids they are disarmed in a way, so it makes also for an interesting place to get to know the city from another dimension. And just by having kids you can discover these things.

[Children singing]

Jess 4:50

But families in general are a common political battleground. Family is a typical stand-in for tradition and the continuation of culture. What's good or bad for families is a regular political bargaining chip.

From censorship to over-policing to immigration intolerance, all of these are commonly excused by the refrain that it's good for the family. The slogan for Sweden far right-wing party is even safety and tradition. So if families are so worth providing for and so worth protecting, let's get specific about what they're afraid of. What do kids and parents feel they need to be safe in the city? This episode will be discussing how parents and kids navigate their city, what’s working for them, and what really isn't.

[Quote] 5:38

“You'll learn an even more amazing truth, that for all the marvels of science, you will still be a busy homemaker.”

NAZEM 5:45

This million program home neighborhoods, modernist neighborhoods of post-war Sweden, are really child-friendly in terms of really being generous of playing grounds and small forests and this kind of traffic-separated, safe structure for children to play in.

And I wouldn't say that there is a particular area in Stockholm that is not friendly for households with children. On the opposite, I think almost all neighborhoods are quite fit for families with one or more children.

Jess 6:28

As we discussed in the last episode, there are still silent rules and expectations that young people and their parents have to make sense in order to safely access Stockholm. You can see the subtle suggestions for family life threading their way through many aspects of the city. Even in the planning of the Millions program, you see that the accommodations encourage small families. More than three children or intergenerational living can make access to the city more difficult. And any attempt to make an alternative family structure is a pretty constraining proposal.

NAZEM 7:03

So the middle-class norm in Sweden now has become like three kids. Then these may be three-room apartments will turn too small, and then you have to move. And in the inner cities, bigger apartments are very expensive, getting even more expensive. And a lot of apartments, which are cheaper, but also in terms of statistics, there are more smaller apartments.

But space is a constructed thing, right? So in Sweden, we also have… we have a lot of complaining and housing shortage. But it's important to remember that Swedish housing offers in square meters--the most generous housing spatially housing to people internationally.

Jess 7:56

The norms, standards, and constraints of life in Stockholm is enough to contend with when you’re from the city and more or less know what you’re in for. But as we’ve talked about in previous episodes, being a transplant or an immigrant can leave you at a loss for where to begin, which is even more stressful when you have a little one depending on you to figure it out.

[Music]

CARLOS 8:20

We have a four-year-old kid, and there's like a lot of hidden rules that you don't know. And then suddenly you realize one day when you go to the preschool that that day is the day of X or Y and you of course didn't have any clue about that.

And of course, that also has to do with the language. The language is an important barrier so there are things that are safe, but you don't understand. So basically, you show up one day and everybody else is like disguised of something and your kid is the only one that doesn't bring these kind of things.

I mean they are basic but at the end of the day, that's what culture is made of, right? It's like a series of things that you know because you know that they are there. They are part of how you live and of course, when you change your country, you arrive to a new country, those kinds of things are difficult to get. I don't have any specific. I mean the preschool case I think that the family world is very full of hidden rules that you don't know and you just have to learn like the way they dress.

For example, here of course it's very cold and very dark but still like kids go out and they spend a lot of time outside in the preschools. So they have an entire vocabulary and technique of how to dress, right? to make sure that the kid is okay.

[Movie quote]

So there is a lot of those things that you have to say, okay I don't know. I didn't know that you have to wear two pants and then an extra like waterproof like full suit and those kind of things, they are new for us, that's all.

I mean, I am still in the process of getting included in the culture and connection and growing my feel of belonging, that's part of arriving to a new country and having a culture clash. That's how it works.

JELENA 10:32

My parents are the first-generation immigrants. So for them coming and leaving everything so for them it was really important that their kids kind of got the best education.

So they made sure we went to another school. So we never got to know too many kids in the area unfortunately... do I sound really posh?

Adélie 10:52

No, not at all. Why?

JELENA 10:54

No because we didn’t really interfere with too many kids from the area... You know, it’s just… it sounds really posh but that's also part of it my growing up with being the second generation and my parents like really put a lot of energy. I mean, we were their future and their hope for why they came here. So in that sense it sounds super posh.

Jess 10:20

For many parents we spoke to that idea of “is my kid on the right path” is a constant worry. But to make matters more complicated, most parents also wanted their kids to have freedom and confidence when navigating their city.

So how do you keep your kids safe while also allowing them some agency? We interviewed Magnus and Sonia together, they’re father and daughter. While Magnus remembers having a lot of freedom as a child, he wasn’t so sure that Sonia should have the same in the center city.  

MAGNUS 11:53

I think it was it was a very kind of interesting situation. I mean, partly I was brought up in... I mean, I started probably to move along a little bit more kind of on my own in the beginning of the 70s. So obviously, the situation was different.

And also this part of the suburb called Vallingby is basically planned as in a way that you don't need to cross the streets. So basically, you can go very far without crossing a single street, which meant that no one told us to stay around where we lived or anything, we were basically free to move along.

And I remember we went with bicycles quite far, actually. And I mean, obviously, sometimes maybe we asked him Sonia's case, kind of forgot about the time and I don't know, but I, my parents was extremely relaxed.

SONIA 12:49

When I was five, my mother went up shopping, and I was alone at home. And it was maybe the first time I was all alone. At home, and I watched a film. And then it ended. And I didn't know what to do. And it felt like she had been away for ages. So I started to worry about her.

And so I decided to go out and search for her. And I thought that she would be in this particular shop, or actually, it's a place where you rent videos. So I went out on my own. And I couldn't open doors at that time, I didn't reach them reach up to these handles. And also the doors were too heavy. So I waited for persons, different people to open the doors, and then it would slip in through.

And so I passed away and it was not such a long way to the shop. But I went there, but she wasn't there, obviously. And I was not so worried I just Okay, let's go home. I said to myself, like, I'll go home, she's probably there. And she was.

Jess 14:15

Was she worried or were people around you. On the streets. were worried that's…

SONIA  14:21

I didn't think of that, but she was very worried when I came home like, what have you done where have you been? I was like I was searching for you! And yeah she said don't do that again.

MAGNUS14:37 

This story is actually quite amazing because obviously someone let her out in the street from the courtyard without thinking it's like a five-year-old girl going out in the street, which is quite interesting. And my partner called me so I almost had a heart attack and then we kind of spoke to each other on the phone and as well, I can hear her she's singing in the streets. So everything was okay.

[Music]

Jess 15:20

While it is a bit strange to see a five-year-old wandering the streets on their own, kids are in fact city residents. So, what should their rights be in urban space? When we talked to Jelena, she filled us in on her research about children’s rights in the city.

JELENA 15:36

In the cityscape in the urban public space, I mean, basically, when they talk about socializing, they say they hang out. And unfortunately, today, there are not too many places in the city where you can hang out without having to go into the commercial world or kind of requires economic power, unfortunately.

[Children speaking]

But they are really I mean, kids are really smart, and they're creative, they find the solutions of how they can use, you know, even commercial spaces, there was this one group of kids that told us well, we go into the store chains and like H&M, for instance, and they take up one of the dressing rooms, and the intention is not to buy anything, or not even religious testing clothes for themselves, but it's more like, masquerade. Like they dress themselves in like different fun outfits and so on.

They the focus is socializing, not really the clothing, but what they say it's warm. And that's one of the big things they ask for. They also ask for Wi-Fi, they want to charge their phones and they want to restroom. And they want it to be for free. So it's the the kids don't have to.

I mean, this is in general when we'd like after interviewing a lot of kids that like what we could kind of trickle it down to and it's not too much they ask for and still the city is not really able to offer them too many spaces of quality.

[Music]

Jess 17:07

For young children it seems pretty clear that they ought to be protected and looked after. But as Jelena was saying, things get a little bit more complicated for pre-teens and teens who face a world of freedoms and restrictions that can be difficult to navigate. We spoke to Jasmine and Anna, two teenagers from Fittja, about how they find their way in the city.

JASMINE 17:28

I cannot be in like a lots of other places because like now in winter, for example, it gets dark. So obviously they want me home before like, seven o'clock or something like that.

And First I didn't want me to go in Fittja school, like here. So they want they wanted me to go in Grintorpskona which is in Alby. But at the I made friends really quickly. So I didn't want to change school and I talked to them about it. And they were okay with that.

But like places like Bredäng, I don't think there was send me alone there. Yeah, I don't think there was me... And not only Bredäng like Vorberg, Vorbygord, those kind of places. Like Skarholmen I can go whenever I want. And um even like T-Centralen I can go there too.

ANNA 18:26 

Of course, my parents are pretty strict. But you know what, parents are so- and I really can't go anywhere really far. Or, like more than like, like, it's not supposed to be for and like, I'm like, I'm like myself scared to go out. If it's not with friends because my parents know my friends. And they trust them. And I trust them.

So I don't I think I have like a time limit like Jasmine has like seven o'clock or anything like that. But even parents say no, it's a no. Cuz you you can never be too careful.

JASMINE 19:07

Like Anna says she's scared to go out by herself. Um, I'm not scared to go out by myself. But it's my parents that don't want me so I'll just have to respect it because I live under their feet, or I don't know, roof. Yeah, so, but I'm not scared I could go to bed even alone. Because I'm a young woman.

Jess 19:28

For some young people, navigating the city is about more than just the insecurity of being a kid on their own for the first time, it’s also navigating the scrutiny of other adults monitoring your behavior. For black and brown parents, modeling a claim to space for their kids is especially important.

ASYNJA 19:46 

The thing is, I mean, I still feel uncomfortable in the areas as I always like Östermalm and Lidingo and this kind of like Taby and because it's still really sort of... It's in. It's more like a physical reaction, like a reflex for me now, even though I'm like, turning 48, and I'm an adult, and I, I mean, people don't laugh at me in the same way as when I was younger, because I'm older.

So with that comes privilege as an age. And as a mother, I also want as an example for my kid never to be afraid of whatever might be happening, you know, being proud and showing her that this is our city.

SAMUEL 20:46 

It's very complicated, because I, I want it to be a very just awareness, my city to be accessible, I want my son to grow up in the city and know that this city is his, no matter where he is kind of.

So when he was little, and he still, when he was smaller, I used to take him everywhere, to museums to parks within the city, just to like, let him know that he this is his home, too. And I did that consciously.

When we went to certain museums, he was the only black child. And when we went back to Hässelby, his kindergarten friends never go to the city. So that was something I had a discussion with some of the parents like asking like, what, what did they do like, you know, during holiday or weekend.

And it was connected to both the socio-economic aspect of it, but also access to the city, which was so tremendously noticeable within these areas, like what do parents do with their kids in the city? So that made me really realize like, Okay, this city is... it's also like, it's a city that pretends like class does not exist pretty much all the time. Just like it doesn't really acknowledge race and racism.

And... but classes very much, you know, like, as if like, oh, no, no, no, it's always worse somewhere else, meaning like maybe in other parts of the world. So oh, here, it's okay. Kind of.

Jess 22:29

As wonderful as social safety nets can be, Sweden’s insistence on certain norms and standards being the only reality makes it really hard for families who are not white Swedes to have their needs taken seriously. Family life is about contending with more than just children, it’s the safety of parents too.  That safety gets complicated when navigating intolerance with your children in tow.

NAZEM 22:54 

Sometimes with my family, we go to this garden, state's like there's this royal garden parks outside just north of Stockholm. I can walk there from my house, and we could walk from here as well. But you know, they're a bit in the periphery. But it's like a paradise that up with greenhouses, with restaurants.

And so, I generally get very aggressive when I stand in a queue in such a place because I've never felt that- I never felt that awkward because people actually are so rude that you know, they bump into you, they push you away in a way that I never believed it could be so overt. I don't feel unsafe, but I just feel uncomfortable.

Jess 23:45 

Because that dynamic change whether it's you by yourself or you your family, do you feel more or less uncomfortable, if it's you alone versus you, your kids?

NAZEM 23:54

I think I feel more alone when I'm alone, because my partner is white. So my kids are mixed, so it's, it's like they become my alibis like, I'm safe.

But of course sometimes when I'm with my friends, like if you're for dark bearded guys doing nothing, you can- you feel this kind of, you know, ungenerous attitude. Of course, I can escape that with my money and with my style and with my ability to talk, but I know that a lot of people can't or won't.

So there's a lot of, you know, aggression going on, even in a city, an equal city like Stockholm around these, you know, subtle signal structures.

Adélie 24:42

Is that something you talk about with your partner with your kids?

NAZEM 24:47

My kids are too small so we can't have these conversations. But with my partner, I try to like signal, that okay, I don't want to be here. And it's something it's sometimes it becomes this thing between us, because she doesn't really feel it that way. And then I have to explain exactly how I feel it and then it's like, oh, you're exaggerating, and then you start to think and hesitate. And maybe I'm exaggerating.

But you know, I can't get rid of the feeling. And that's the thing with these, you know, kind of signal structures that you can always contest them, you could always be you. But you know, being you is always a, it's a reaction, it's not like you're you're not born or you're not trained to have this feeling, it's a reaction towards something. Right, so even if it doesn't happen there and then, it's still a structure that you react.

YASMIN 25:41

So it's something I used to think about before I became pregnant, how I would feel moving around the city, and I wouldn't say it's changed right now, but it doesn't really show, unless you know what you're looking for. So I don't know how I'm gonna feel once my pregnancy is more visible.

[Sigh]

You know, the risk, once again, worst case scenario, becoming a target as some form of representation or embodiment of some culture, as these things are typically projected on. Bodies that are read as feminine, and of color. And what form that might take, you know, it can come in varying degrees, but that is definitely something I'm aware of.

And my, my guess is that the, the later I progress into my pregnancy, the more careful I'll be, and probably won't be as comfortable being out late as I am now. And might avoid high-density areas, like when people are out partying or when people have been drinking and, and the like...

Jess 27:15 

Places that become unpredictable.

YASMIN 27:17 

Yeah, yeah. And especially, also, that's with it, like, once the child is outside of my body, I'd that's certainly something I think about as well, walking around with baby carriage and just that immense sense of vulnerability that I imagined I would feel, I think, be very conscientious of where I'm moving, and, and why like it has to be, it has to be worth it.

Jess 27:45 

Also, so this, what you were saying earlier about the possibility of being a target, because you are a woman, and because you're a woman of color, and what your pregnancy might represent someone who is, is intolerant, or doesn't see those things as being a part of Sweden, being part of Stockholm, sort of becoming like a symbol of, you know, what does a woman of color who is pregnant in the city, what might that? What aggression might that target from an intolerant person who doesn't see that as a part of the city?

YASMIN 28:21 

Right. I mean, I would say is, might, it could be perceived as a representation of what's happening, like a development in this country, that racist people would not be happy about that. This country is moving in the wrong direction that more of us are coming to exist in this space where we don't belong, where we shouldn't be in the first place.

And also, the process of humanization. Me, you know, this body of mine, not only carrying life, but forming life, creating life and giving birth to it, creating space for it to exist in this country. That is something that is perceived as provocative to somebody who doesn't believe in my right to exist.

And as pregnant bodies are extra vulnerable, they become an even easier target. Unfortunately, we've seen black women and people of color who are pregnant, being attacked in the city not too long ago. And well, it's probably been happening for since forever, but we've seen it documented and spread and become viral in a different way more recently. And we've also seen that there have been no repercussions to that type of violence.

So it's a very real threat that I think a lot of pregnant POCs have to find a way to relate to. And at the same time as I have my different strategies for being safe, I also don't want to spend too much of my energy hiding or becoming invisible. Because I have the right to exist, and so does my child, and so does my pregnant body just as anybody, anybody else, or any pregnant body has the right to exist. And that's something that I think we need to claim as well, to change the narrative of what's normative.

Jess 30:26

Have you had discussions with your partner about that vulnerability?

YASMIN 30:30

Me and my partner haven't discussed this vulnerability yet. Probably because it's early on in the pregnancy and… yeah, doesn't show it on me. My guess would be that even once my pregnancy would become more physically visible, he might not necessarily have those concerns.

I think I'm I tend to be more of the one that's the one that focuses on worst case scenarios, but I also have experience of having grown up in Sweden, and he moved to Sweden three years ago. So, I have the lifelong experience of being black in a white society. And of being constantly subjugated to structural racism, whereas that's a new experience for him. And that's something that he has recently been experiencing firsthand, learning how to verbalize and express and relate to and make sense of in a completely different way. Whereas for me, it's like second nature.

[Mother playing with children]

Jess 31:52

Even with the safety net in place, the safety and needs of some families are not being met. For Louise, being a queer parent meant that a network was required to ensure that her family had the support that it needed. So she started a group with other LGBTQ families in her neighborhood.

LOUISE 32:12

Together with a lot of people, we started a network for LGBTQ families on the metro line to Skarpnäck, and we meet a lot in Bagamossen and in Skarpnäck. That means that we have like social dinners we have different sorts of activities like BBQ or being outdoors with the kids or all different kinds of whatever people feel like setting up actually. So that makes the place more- I feel very connected to Bagamossen in that way since we arrange a lot of stuff there.

Jess 32:54

How do you organize? Through social media or…?

LOUISE 32:58

Yeah, through social media but we're also a part of RFSL as a membership group for Stockholm.

Jess 33:07

What is that?

LOUISE 33:08

It's the national organization for LGBTQ rights in Sweden. So the Stockholm sort of division of that organization you can be like a membership group. and we formed like a membership group there. So in that way the network uh can be sort of applying for public funding for some stuff that we want to do to keep fees down, for example, or meals free. And… but still don't have to have our own organization with more administration and stuff like that.

Jess 33:53

While I don’t have children myself, I was really fascinated to see the amount of visibility and access children had in the city of Stockholm. However, in a society contending with oppression and intolerance that access is still not equal. Families like Louise’s are organizing to create inclusive spaces but there is still so much more to be done to protect families from the actual threats that children and parents face in the city.

As much as I’ve enjoyed exploring family life, next episode we’re on to something a little different: nightlife. Join us next time for Little Saturday.

[Music]

Jess 34:56

We are produced with the generous support of the Graham Foundation for Advanced Studies in the fine arts and Konstnärsnämnden (The Swedish Arts Committee). Thank you to our senior producer Adélie Pojzman-Pontay and our team of graduate assistants from the architecture department at the Rhode Island School of Design: Bilal Ismail Ahmed, Daniel Choconta Guerrero, Kim Ayala, and Uthman Olowo. Fatou Camara consults for the show. Cory Jacobs does the music. And Adriene Lilly does our sound design.

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Okay. Until next time, this has been Here There Be Dragons!

[Music]

[OUTRO]

TANVIR 36:50

Grown-ups, beware of strangers.